est. 2023
Systems of Release is an evolving multimedia project presenting fragments of New York City's underground electronic music communities.
info
THE NEW HARDCORE: HELLTEKK + HAMMERHEAD
We spoke with Dakota Velasquez & Justin Santana (HELLTEKK) and Ashe Kilbourne (HAMMERHEAD) about pushing the limits of hardcore, building underground community in NYC, and the ethos behind their collectives.
May 9 2024
KILBOURNE Studio
AUDIO AVAILABLE
DAKOTA VALESQUEZ:
a Honduran American born & raised in Brooklyn N.Y, is what you think of when you think NYC hardcore. Known for her fast paced sets and killer breaks with no plans on letting up when given the chance to dj with mixtures of Jungle, jungle tekno , Frenchcore, Free tekno, Gabber and other genres alike. As the Co-founder of the free party collective HELLTEKK they strive to push the limit as much as possible and give the people what they want.
SOUNDCLOUD
FORITIFED STRUCTURES:Fortified Structures brings the pain with a mixture of all things free tekno/hardcore. Pushing the boundaries of every sound system she’s on it’s a staple in her sets to flow throw squelching acid and punchy kick drums.
SOUNDCLOUD
BANDCAMP
KILBOURNEDestined to devastate, Kilbourne has established herself as a leading visionary of American hardcore techno. Her DJ sets showcase an unrelenting drive and spontaneous selection, and she has toured widely across the Americas and Europe at venues such as Tresor, Defqon.1, and Boiler Room. After critically acclaimed releases on PRSPCT, Industrial Strength, and Evar Records, 2024 sees her launching Hammerhead, a new label and party showcasing the most psychedelic and brutal sounds of the genre.
SOUNDCLOUD
BANDCAMP
*Some words have been cut or jump cuts made for readability’s sake
SOR: It seems like there's a lot of moving parts to Helltekk and a lot of different people. I just want to know how it began for you guys?
HELLTEKK (Dakota Velasquez): At first, it just started with us two. And now we added recently, our homies like that's been there since day one, Psychs, better known as Fuck The Psychs. Yeah, it's awesome.
SOR: When did you guys start it?
HELLTEKK (Justin Santana): Uh, 2021. We started. I was DJing at home. And I was like, I threw a line out where I was like, oh, like, anybody want to book me to DJ. I think I waited like three months and nothing happened. And Dakota was like, I'm pretty sure we could just do this on our own. I’m like word. Dakota mentioned that punks usually use the spot to do shows and that we could probably do a free show there. And that's how we started off our free party side of Helltekk. Normally when we speak about our collective we’re like, yeah, we do paid shows but our main thing is a free party. That is our main.
HELLTEKK (D): When we’re able to afford…
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, obviously because of the weather and stuff, but that's our main better bread and butter is the free party.
HELLTEKK (D): So if we could do that almost all the time. That'll be awesome.
SOR: And what about Hammerhead? When did that start for you? Because you've been doing solo stuff for a while?
HAMMERHEAD (Ashe Kilbourne): Yeah, I've been doing that for a while. But actually that name is Hammerhead and that idea, I think two years ago, I started talking with friends about it. I was like I play often here (New York) and not here. And obviously have opinions about how I think a show should be. And there's artists that I like that don't play here normally. I think at a certain point it makes sense to have a party, to have a label, to have some kind of vessel for putting people's music, or people who I like and support out there. Obviously, it's not a huge operation but being like, here's a physical copy or we get some photos taken. You know, send it to music writers. Basically, get it the attention that I think it deserves. A year ago, that was the first party. It was like last April.
SOR: Oh, yeah. I was gonna ask about the record label. What’s that aspect of it all?
HAMMERHEAD: Yeah, I think that was actually my first thought and then the party happened alongside it. For me, it's hardcore that I like. It's mostly people that I have a personal relationship with. I'm not aiming to do a lot of releases, but to make them quality. It's also for me to put out my own music as well. It's a nice thing when you don't want to wait like a year. I also wanted to do something that was not vinyl, at least not exclusively vinyl, because by the time it was out the tracks were like two years old. But a CD, you can make that in two weeks if you want. And that's just so simple. But yeah, we've done two releases so far. I think the third one will be out in a couple months. It's really good.
SOR: I also wanted to ask, what would you guys say the ethos is of your collectives or like, your mission statement? Like, what are some values that are really meaningful to you guys, when you create your party?
HELLTEKK (D): Mainly to bring everyone together no matter if you have money or not just come through and dance the whole night. Add to that?
HELLTEKK (J): I don't know. Like, I've never thought of a mission statement. But mainly that. The reason why we do the free party stuff is to give people a space to party for free. Because we understand why certain parties in Bushwick, in the whole rave scene in general, cost a certain amount of money. Like I have no problem, I'm not saying that just because she's here, I have no problem paying Ashe $30 or $40 to go to her parties. I have no problem with that. But there's way too many parties that are $20 to $30 that I'm like, there's no way. I know how much this costs. I know how much you wasted to get here. There's no way that this party is $20 to $30.
HELLTEKK (D): Also some lineups are really oversaturated.
HELLTEKK(J): Like, I'm not paying you so much money to see certain people. It's just you're pricing people out. There's a bunch of parties we would love to go to sometimes but we’re like, eesh, $30 before tax so after it's $38. I just, I can't afford that. But people could afford to find us somewhere in Queens where we normally do our stuff or meet us at Trans Pecos for 15 to 20 bucks.
SOR: Yeah, I totally get that. There's a lot of things I paid for where I was like, Yeah, I didn't need to pay that much for this shit. Well, what would you say your ethos or values are?
HAMMERHEAD: Musically, I feel like I'm trying to get to something that's kind of psychedelic, kind of sexy, open up a portal vibes. I like all kinds of music experiences, stuff all around electronic music, outside electronic music, but I think at this point, the most powerful stuff has been when it gets really freaky and you can't even tell what's real anymore. I think just being somewhere for a long time, having a really loud sound, Loud enough that you don't have to hear people, like no one can even talk.
SOR: And it kinda sends you into a freaky mentality?
HAMMERHEAD: Exactly. Exactly.
SOR: Sort of meditative, like a drug.
HAMMERHEAD: Yeah, like that. And it's also an excuse to get my friends under one roof and dance together.
SOR: So it seems like community is a really big moving component for you guys. Was there anything missing from the scene that you wanted to bring when you started thinking of a collective and doing parties?
HELLTEKK (D): More New York natives, especially people of color running shit in the rave scene. That was one of our main goals. And that's what this whole group is, we're all just native New York kids, doing this shit. So I think that's hard. And queer, that’s another bonus.
HELLTEKK (J): For the most part when it comes to our parties, there's a lot of New York native kids who are there, like kids who are from the city that felt like they couldn't go to raves. Because for the most part, it's always the same thing. Even before I got into hardcore when I was 15, I was like, that’s white people music. Once you understand that it's not white people music, even if it happens to be categorized as that, you can still participate in it, you can still come to that type of thing. Our stuff opened the door for those kids to be like, Oh, we can actually come and party with you. I'm like, yes. You don't have to be afraid of raves. There's no reason to shy away from coming to this stuff
HELLTEKK (D): Yeah, they literally come up to us telling us like, yo, we feel seen, especially seeing the people running it. We're all in the same age group. And it's like, alright, I can connect with you. You know what I mean? We're from the same type of area. We're both non white. You know what I mean? That's cool.
SOR: Was there anything that you saw that was missing that you wanted to bring back?
HAMMERHEAD: I guess it's a different scene now than seven years ago or something, where it felt like there were no hardcore parties at all. Now there's obviously so many, and there's a variety. But when you hear a powerful sound system, that's something that was missing.
SOR: That makes me think of the quality of these parties, and how that can turn people off to hardcore because they're like, What is this crazy noise?, but then you're bringing in a really good sound system…oh, this is what it’s supposed to sound like.
HELLTEKK (D): I've been to Hammerhead, that shit is amazing. It's like what you just said, like the sound systems, you make sure it's good like it's great. Like the whole night is just amazing. You know what I mean? Literally no talking on the dance floor, it's just dancing the whole night.
SOR: Yeah, definitely. I had so much fun at each one I went to. Are there any other hardcore collectives that you want to shout out?
HAMMERHEAD: Helltekk
HELLTEKK (D): Hammerhead lineups are fucking amazing, it’s like three artists doing two hour sets or something, it’s like bringing power the whole night.
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, there's a lot of hardcore parties. But there's not a lot of good hardcore parties. Which is why I don't go out very often. Hardcore isn't just loudness.
HELLTEKK (D): Or goofiness.
SOR: Like happy hardcore?
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, and even then, like there's good happy hardcore sets, like our homie Seth (Valestrand), or Flapjack. Obviously, he's the main happy hardcore guy. But like Seth does great Happy Hardcore sets, and I liked him, but then I'll go to go see other people who do Happy Hardcore sets. And I'm just like, I can tell you don't care for this music. I've heard the songs before. There's nothing wrong with playing songs that everyone knows. But if I go to your set, and every single song is songs that when you first look up happy, hardcore, is what I'm hearing… You have to have a certain level of care for things when you start doing them. A lot of people don't have the care for hardcore, happy hardcore, or jungle stuff like that. They just don't have the care for it. And that's fine. But I'm also not going to go and see you play because I know you don't care about this music as much as I do.
HELLTEKK (D): It's always really obvious when you like to tell us someone crate digs or not. If I can name like, your whole set, or half of your set at least, it's like, lock in with the genre you want to play.
HAMMERHEAD: I feel like when I would go and see hardcore parties, or even when I was playing hardcore parties everyone I'm playing alongside is trolling right now. I don't want to sound reactive or like things need to be pure. Obviously, all these things are meant to be broken down. And we can tell like you said, when someone doesn't have love for the music. Like, you went on Spotify and did the first three tracks on the hardcore bangers editorial playlists? You know.
HELLTEKK (J): You looked at the old school gabber pack on Spotify? I love Neophyte as much as the next person but I don't want to hear that. I've heard it enough.
SOR: Well, what are some genres that you guys think of for your collectives? What are you attracted to when you're playing? I know Dakota just did a sick Drum and Bass jungle mix.
HELLTEKK (D): Definitely what you just brought up. Definitely jungle. Free Tekno is one that we really love to play.
HELLTEKK (J): I really love Hard House. Yeah, part of the LA hard house scene is one of my favorites.
HELLTEKK (D): Yeah this one (Justin) crate digs like a motherfucker when it comes to hard house.
HELLTEKK (J): LA hard house scene is something I really love because like, looking through their history, it was just a big melting pot of Latinos and black people that really ran that scene for a while. And all the songs are super hard to find because they were not well documented at all. There's a couple of YouTube pages that have all the songs, but even then the songs won't be properly recorded like they're still fuzzy and hazy, which speaks to the genre because they were making it on really shitty samplers. That's one of my favorite genres that I really really love, along with jungle and the rest of them, but free techno, hardcore, and hard house is like my main thing.
HELLTEKK (D): And gabber for sure, it's really fun to play.
SOR: What is free tekno? I don't think I’ve heard that before.
HELLTEKK(J): Free tekno is a genre that spawned from the free party scene. So it's people like suburb bass, 69 DB, Chris liberator, Ben Nine Millimeter. That genre is my favorite because they make the songs eight minutes long and a lot of it is just straight hardware recording.
HELLTEKK (D): Spinning free tech is really fun too. Because it's just all about blends. Like you got to make sure the whole thing goes together. Really fun.
SOR: Ashe, what are some genres that you're attracted to?
HAMMERHEAD: I think the smooth brain answer is probably industrial hardcore. This is sort of like a fake term to me. If you unpack, what does it mean? Not much, but I don't know, dark hardcore. I like a lot of stuff within that. Like all of hardcore techno, like more technoey stuff, or like the Millennium sound, I love mainstream hardcore, like, early and old school. I don't like crossbreeding at all, or hard drum and bass, but just about everything else like in the spectrum, terror, speed core it's all good. And like yeah, like free techno techno okay, too.
HELLTEKK (J): Why don't you like crossbreed
HAMMERHEAD: I don't know, the sound design is nasty. I love jungle, I like some drum and bass. I like old UK breakbeat hardcore. I hate the like, (making a sound) chk chk bl-ink chk chk bl-ink
*Laughter*
HELLTEKK (J): Like the drum and bass break and then a really loud K right in the middle of the mix
HAMMERHEAD: Even like the hat. Everything is so clean. And obviously some hardcore is really clean in a similar way. But it's so shiny and perfect. You know what I mean? You can tell this person's a genius, like, in a bad way. I like tracks with breaks in them like drum and bass or jungle or like, club music and Baltimore club and stuff because the breaks sound human to some extent. A lot of crossbreed sounds so anti human and not organic.
SOR: Speaking of humanity and human touch in electronic stuff, what does that sound like to you? How do you bring like human-ness into this music?
HELLTEKK (J): I'll speak from my own sweet experience when it comes to me making music. I feel like what brings the human touch to it is making all my own sounds. That's what I try my best to do. I have a Mackie 1604, and it has an old technique where you do the direct outs. So you gain, uh, distort all the kicks and make your gabber kicks and stuff like that. That adds a human layer to it because it brings a really, really raw sound that I'll end up fixing in post. One of the songs that I released, Analog Static, a lot of it is what I recorded when I was outside. So it was a lot of field recordings of me just being out. And that's my favorite song because it sounds like something I did, not something that I grabbed from somewhere else. Samples and everything is fine. That's hip hop. I love it. I sample all the time. But there has to be a level of like, crafting from your own self in order to make it more human.
SOR: What are some images, feelings that come up in your mind's eye when you listen,play and dance to hardcore? What do you see in your brain? It could be anything abstract or concrete?
HELLTEKK: Honestly the one of the images that comes up in my head is the thumping from my monitors and drivers when I'm playing or listening to hardcore. That's the feeling that I get, the pumping from my chest.
HAMMERHEAD: Some like goofy stuff like the rapture or really like overblown high drama the earth opening up. I'm not feeling that all the time. Or like when I first heard hardcore, sonically I was like this is the most insane sound like the apocalypse were to happen this is what would be the soundtrack.
SOR: I was gonna ask about your wristbands for each one your shows have. Hardcore is a Feeling. Can you elaborate on what that phrase means to you?
HAMMERHEAD: I wrote down the wristbands in part because I was turned off by how segmented a lot of establishments are, especially like European Hardcore. Someone was like [after a set], You played a lot of like, this sound in your set, but also this one is like, And they're like, Well, which one is it? Which one are you doing? And I was like, Whoa, that's like, such a twisted way to approach music of like. Oh, I need to play like a pure Millennium set? It's actually a feeling and something that's continuous across a lot of different sounds. Hardcore is not just like gabber or Dutch hardcore, it's actually a whole spectrum of sounds,distortion and power and speed.
SOR: Do you guys feel that there are limitations to seeing things through genre?
HELLTEKK (J): Yes, but there's limitations for a reason. Not a reason to stop you. I see it like a herding dog, it's like they're pushing you towards the thing you're supposed to be. I feel like all the rules are really, really soft. But if you want to make the specific genre, you would have to abide by them a little bit.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, genre does matter. And history does matter. It's shaped how you understand music. At the same time, I don't want to idolize genres as the most valuable way to understand music. You're not going to hear this song if you're only judging it on what check marks or boxes it ticks.
HELLTEKK (J): I think the only box it should be ticking is if you like it or not. I don't need genre help, instead Do you think this would hit on a dance floor? I don't need you to think about the genre. I need you to let me know if this is going to hit on a set of speakers. If it does cool. If it doesn't let me know because that means that I have work to do.
SOR: What was your first encounter or earliest memory with hardcore?
HELLTEKK (J): If y'all ever seen that meme of the little kid dancing in the club, that was a Thunderdome video. I saw Thunderdome 1992 and all the Thunderdome videos, from 15 to around 17/18, but I didn't care to look for anything else past that And then, yeah, I started dating Dakota. Dakota was like There's a whole scene for this.
HELLTEKK(D): When I was 16 I went to a rave. So I was like, Yo, I'm fucking with this and my homie was there and asked him [the DJ], Do you know what this is? And then you know, they were like, yeah, it's gabber. I was like Yo, you gotta put me on. Thunderdome was like the entry. I grew to love it, you know got more into it so we're here now.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, I had a friend who would send me tracks or burned CDs in high school that would have a lot of trance and happy hardcore. And at one point they sent me a Scott Brown Bonkers, which was like a Happy Hardcore mix series. I probably was like 14. I was hearing it more and I wanted to know more.
SOR: How did you guys learn about each other? And how did you guys start off playing together?
HELLTEKK (J): Well, it's kind of hard to get into hardcore and not find Kilbourne in the first place. In the current state of hardcore hardcore, you do definitely run into your songs very easily. So yeah, at first we were like, super like, oh my god, do we say hi to her?
HAMMERHEAD: I think it must have just been through the internet. Like I feel like I was just like I mean, I don't know I have the experience recently where I was like, found like a few like people doing hardcore like in the city that I didn't know.
SOR: What is the relevance of being a young, queer, women, and people of color in the genre/scene?
HELLTEKK (J): Being young in the scene is important because other young people don't think they should come here because for some reason people have convinced them that raving is an old people's game. They feel like it's like a weird place where they can't compete or be in and I'm just like, No, you can. We're here. Like, the reason why we're here is for that reason. You could also do this, like that's the other thing where people all like to offer to help us. Or they're like, Oh, how do we get started? I'm just like, you're asking the wrong questions. You can just be started. The moment you start asking how can I do this is the moment you've already started. Just do it.
HELLTEKK (D): It's cool to see more Puerto Rican kids, Hondurans, Latinos, Black people in it.
HAMMERHEAD: There's one thing I thought about. I once played in the Netherlands, and I was feeling pretty alienated. Especially for queerness and straightness. I'm here to play. And it's only for straight people. And that is like, kind of odd. Like, would I be friends with these people? Like if we weren't just in this room right now. So I'm in the crowd at this point. Like, I'm waiting to go on. I'm just kind of in my head like, damn. And then as I'm doing this, these two totally like Gabbered out guys like, Australians, shaved head, tracksuit, shirtless really good Hakken… as I'm just like, having this big quandary, one of them, like grabs the other back of their head and they start making out. I'm just like, Oh, my God, like shut the fuck up. Just chill and enjoy this.
SOR: What are some of the benefits that come with starting a collective from scratch? What are some drawbacks?
HELLTEKK (J): The benefits of starting from scratch is you're able to build your own community; your own ecosystem. You got to do your own thing with it. Get to play your own music that you want to hear or the artists that you're actually in love with.
HELLTEKK (D): Make sure you pick the right people to work with and make sure those people that you pick are going to be down for the long run because you don't want to run into issues with them because they don't do their part.
HAMMERHEAD: Sharing what my vision of Hardcore is; my sort of perfect night imagined, my favorite artists. People playing long sets as the standard, not booking anyone because it's political or I feel like I need to bring this [certain] crowd in. It's just literally, musically, who I would like to see. That is a real blessing. I don't know, it's nice to work with my friends. Most of the people that make the flyers, that setup and run different parts of the party are friends and that's obviously special; It’s touching.
HAMMERHEAD cont.: Throwing the parties has really made me rethink about what I want to DJ, what kind of music I want to hear. Because once you're at a venue for like 15/16 hours, from the very start to breaking everything down, that's a really different energy than like, pulling up an hour before you play, dancing for a couple hours, leaving.
SOR: What is the difference in the energy?
HAMMERHEAD: In the mood and affect you’re trying to create. I think hardcore can suffer from this drop mentality or like EDM shit where I need to be blowing your mind like every other second. So much hype to like a point that can no longer sustain itself you know what I mean? If you only have an hour to play, you kind of just want to go in there and play all the bangers. Having a longer set for example, you can play stuff that you normally wouldn't because you know it's not going to get the most crazy crowd reaction; it's not going to be that song with an acapella that people know and then they can be like, ahhhh, sing along. I think the long term energy of the party may be something you think about.
SOR: What are the crowds that each of your respective collectives bring in? What are some similarities and differences in the people, energy, etc.?
HELLTEKK (D): The crowds we bring in are mainly POC, native New Yorkers. And the other half are a lot of young people, some candy kids, you know. Some punks also pull up so that's always sick to see because I'm like, come through to the raves it's not you know, fuck techno or whatever the fuck you're describing. That kill the disco mentality is wack, I think punks definitely enjoy the renegade aspect of it too.
HELLTEKK (J): I think [both of] the crowds that are coming are there to enjoy the music, rather than just going there for a photo op. Because that's a huge thing I think people sometimes tend to miss with their own parties, you should create an atmosphere where no one wants to pull their phones out. Or if they're gonna get a picture, they get their picture in and that's it. I don't need to be seeing a sea of phones, I sound like I'm 60 years old.
HELLTEKK (D): We’d rather see people connect on the dance floor with each other or with the music.
HAMMERHEAD: I feel like both parties, it's not a lot of people who are like, I'm wandering down Myrtle Ave. let me go to a techno club. It is self selected in some ways, it's a particular kind of music. I don't know if y'all would characterize your party this way but to me both of them are friendly. There’s an unspoken nature if you really fuck with this music and are giving yourself to it then you have a place in that space. Compared to a lot of other parties, a core concept is creating scarcity and some kind of sense of clique, which is a really dark mentality.
SOR: What is something that you wish you could change about the scene?
HELLTEKK (J): I wish we could be more selective as to who comes in. Not in a way to push anyone out, but I do feel there's an oversaturation of college kids who move here and are like, there's no community in the rave scene. So I created my own thing. If all of your crowds are transplant college kids, you are doing something very wrong. That's where we come into a lot of our issues with people who feel very entitled to the New York space because they moved here. Just because you paid to go to fucking NYU does not mean you're fucking entitled to my goddamn native space. I don't have a problem with people that are coming from colleges to stay here. But the entitlement behind your words is what bothers me.
HELLTEKK (D): People take the ‘New York is your playground’ thing too seriously. It's not a playground. This is a city full of people who care for and love the city. It's either you're going to care for and love the city, or you're going to feel jaded and want to do your own thing. And when that thing you started does not work out because, guess what, none of the people in this scene like you, because you have an entitled, rude attitude. And then, what, you're going to stop doing your collective and you're going to be like, “Oh, the New York scene sucks,” which we've heard too many times over. “Oh, the New York scene sucks.” “You guys are so jaded.” I'm like who jaded?! Because I love this city. I love my collective, I love my scene. It just didn't work out for you because you don't know how to speak to people.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, I'm trying to show what I think a hardcore party could look like and things that I find musically and artistically valuable and special to experience. I think that's my attempt at change.
SOR: On the flip side, what's something you would never change about the scene?
HAMMERHEAD: I value that people don't take the sound for granted here. It's rare compared to a lot of other kinds of dance music. And that's really different than, you know, a Dutch festival or just the Netherlands in general where you can go to any of these parties any day of the week kind of thing or it's always there for you. I think the energy of excitement and wonder around it is really special.
SOR: As natives, how do you feel about a lot of old mainstays, like The Grove for example, getting closed down and having to do more legal events.
HELLTEKK (J): It sucks to see it go because it was just like, that's where a lot of people got some of their first shows, especially with experimental electronic music. Or places like Chaos Computer because that space was just so organic. And for that to go and not come back up is hard.You know, I touched on this earlier but you college kids come here and y'all come from money. Start putting your money towards start putting your fucking money towards DIY spaces.
HELLTEKK (D): If they actually want to take part in it instead of acting like nothing exists. How about finding out for yourself and see what's going on and how you can help. Instead of having this the colonizer mentality once you move here.
SOR: What's the future looking like for HAMMERHEAD?
HAMMERHEAD: [The Magazine was originally slated for a June release] Well, I think we're gonna do the next HAMMERHEAD party on June 21. We're going to do the 5th HAMMERHEAD party bringing the legends: The Outside Agency & Mindustries. These are the people that made industrial hardcore what it is, it's both of their first times playing in New York, so that's history vibes. The next release for the label is going to be out this summer, it's RABBEAT who played last October. Yeah, seven tracks, incredible futuristic hardcore. I think he's maybe the best in industrial hardcore right now so I can't wait for them to come out.
SOR: HELLTEKK, any shoutouts?
HELLTEKK (J): Stay in tune with our Instagram (@helltekk.inc) so you could get the coordinates to where our free parties will be. We won't post them of course, but you know, you can hit us with a DM. Hopefully we're also going to come out with the HELLTEKK CD’s, it's all going to be mixes.
HELLTEKK (D): Shout out to the other third group member who wasn't able to come through but, Chris, Fuckthepychs (@wheresthepsychs), we love you. Shout out UNITED JUMP FRONT (@unitedjumpfront), another collective. Shout out to Shane K, Jess, Jules, they’re pushing the jump style hard house sound. Definitely shout out to the people that help us out during the Renegades. They show up early with us and help us lug everything.
HELLTEKK (J): And If you have your own free time, which you should have the free time to be doing… You should be looking in for the liberation of the Palestinian people. You should be looking into donating and helping the protesters.
HAMMERHEAD: 100%. To that end, all this like art and music is totally tied up with what Israel is trying to do by whitewashing itself as a cultural, tastemaker beacon and that's all just to like distract you from genocide. So keep talking about it in music spaces. I also wanna shout out to Juan and Aine who have been so helpful and crucial and tapped into making Hammerhead stuff happen pretty much from the jump.
SOR: Thank you guys so much y'all rock and that's cut.
SOR: It seems like there's a lot of moving parts to Helltekk and a lot of different people. I just want to know how it began for you guys?
HELLTEKK (Dakota Velasquez): At first, it just started with us two. And now we added recently, our homies like that's been there since day one, Psychs, better known as Fuck The Psychs. Yeah, it's awesome.
SOR: When did you guys start it?
HELLTEKK (Justin Santana): Uh, 2021. We started. I was DJing at home. And I was like, I threw a line out where I was like, oh, like, anybody want to book me to DJ. I think I waited like three months and nothing happened. And Dakota was like, I'm pretty sure we could just do this on our own. I’m like word. Dakota mentioned that punks usually use the spot to do shows and that we could probably do a free show there. And that's how we started off our free party side of Helltekk. Normally when we speak about our collective we’re like, yeah, we do paid shows but our main thing is a free party. That is our main.
HELLTEKK (D): When we’re able to afford…
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, obviously because of the weather and stuff, but that's our main better bread and butter is the free party.
HELLTEKK (D): So if we could do that almost all the time. That'll be awesome.
SOR: And what about Hammerhead? When did that start for you? Because you've been doing solo stuff for a while?
HAMMERHEAD (Ashe Kilbourne): Yeah, I've been doing that for a while. But actually that name is Hammerhead and that idea, I think two years ago, I started talking with friends about it. I was like I play often here (New York) and not here. And obviously have opinions about how I think a show should be. And there's artists that I like that don't play here normally. I think at a certain point it makes sense to have a party, to have a label, to have some kind of vessel for putting people's music, or people who I like and support out there. Obviously, it's not a huge operation but being like, here's a physical copy or we get some photos taken. You know, send it to music writers. Basically, get it the attention that I think it deserves. A year ago, that was the first party. It was like last April.
SOR: Oh, yeah. I was gonna ask about the record label. What’s that aspect of it all?
HAMMERHEAD: Yeah, I think that was actually my first thought and then the party happened alongside it. For me, it's hardcore that I like. It's mostly people that I have a personal relationship with. I'm not aiming to do a lot of releases, but to make them quality. It's also for me to put out my own music as well. It's a nice thing when you don't want to wait like a year. I also wanted to do something that was not vinyl, at least not exclusively vinyl, because by the time it was out the tracks were like two years old. But a CD, you can make that in two weeks if you want. And that's just so simple. But yeah, we've done two releases so far. I think the third one will be out in a couple months. It's really good.
SOR: I also wanted to ask, what would you guys say the ethos is of your collectives or like, your mission statement? Like, what are some values that are really meaningful to you guys, when you create your party?
HELLTEKK (D): Mainly to bring everyone together no matter if you have money or not just come through and dance the whole night. Add to that?
HELLTEKK (J): I don't know. Like, I've never thought of a mission statement. But mainly that. The reason why we do the free party stuff is to give people a space to party for free. Because we understand why certain parties in Bushwick, in the whole rave scene in general, cost a certain amount of money. Like I have no problem, I'm not saying that just because she's here, I have no problem paying Ashe $30 or $40 to go to her parties. I have no problem with that. But there's way too many parties that are $20 to $30 that I'm like, there's no way. I know how much this costs. I know how much you wasted to get here. There's no way that this party is $20 to $30.
HELLTEKK (D): Also some lineups are really oversaturated.
HELLTEKK(J): Like, I'm not paying you so much money to see certain people. It's just you're pricing people out. There's a bunch of parties we would love to go to sometimes but we’re like, eesh, $30 before tax so after it's $38. I just, I can't afford that. But people could afford to find us somewhere in Queens where we normally do our stuff or meet us at Trans Pecos for 15 to 20 bucks.
SOR: Yeah, I totally get that. There's a lot of things I paid for where I was like, Yeah, I didn't need to pay that much for this shit. Well, what would you say your ethos or values are?
HAMMERHEAD: Musically, I feel like I'm trying to get to something that's kind of psychedelic, kind of sexy, open up a portal vibes. I like all kinds of music experiences, stuff all around electronic music, outside electronic music, but I think at this point, the most powerful stuff has been when it gets really freaky and you can't even tell what's real anymore. I think just being somewhere for a long time, having a really loud sound, Loud enough that you don't have to hear people, like no one can even talk.
SOR: And it kinda sends you into a freaky mentality?
HAMMERHEAD: Exactly. Exactly.
SOR: Sort of meditative, like a drug.
HAMMERHEAD: Yeah, like that. And it's also an excuse to get my friends under one roof and dance together.
SOR: So it seems like community is a really big moving component for you guys. Was there anything missing from the scene that you wanted to bring when you started thinking of a collective and doing parties?
HELLTEKK (D): More New York natives, especially people of color running shit in the rave scene. That was one of our main goals. And that's what this whole group is, we're all just native New York kids, doing this shit. So I think that's hard. And queer, that’s another bonus.
HELLTEKK (J): For the most part when it comes to our parties, there's a lot of New York native kids who are there, like kids who are from the city that felt like they couldn't go to raves. Because for the most part, it's always the same thing. Even before I got into hardcore when I was 15, I was like, that’s white people music. Once you understand that it's not white people music, even if it happens to be categorized as that, you can still participate in it, you can still come to that type of thing. Our stuff opened the door for those kids to be like, Oh, we can actually come and party with you. I'm like, yes. You don't have to be afraid of raves. There's no reason to shy away from coming to this stuff
HELLTEKK (D): Yeah, they literally come up to us telling us like, yo, we feel seen, especially seeing the people running it. We're all in the same age group. And it's like, alright, I can connect with you. You know what I mean? We're from the same type of area. We're both non white. You know what I mean? That's cool.
SOR: Was there anything that you saw that was missing that you wanted to bring back?
HAMMERHEAD: I guess it's a different scene now than seven years ago or something, where it felt like there were no hardcore parties at all. Now there's obviously so many, and there's a variety. But when you hear a powerful sound system, that's something that was missing.
SOR: That makes me think of the quality of these parties, and how that can turn people off to hardcore because they're like, What is this crazy noise?, but then you're bringing in a really good sound system…oh, this is what it’s supposed to sound like.
HELLTEKK (D): I've been to Hammerhead, that shit is amazing. It's like what you just said, like the sound systems, you make sure it's good like it's great. Like the whole night is just amazing. You know what I mean? Literally no talking on the dance floor, it's just dancing the whole night.
SOR: Yeah, definitely. I had so much fun at each one I went to. Are there any other hardcore collectives that you want to shout out?
HAMMERHEAD: Helltekk
HELLTEKK (D): Hammerhead lineups are fucking amazing, it’s like three artists doing two hour sets or something, it’s like bringing power the whole night.
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, there's a lot of hardcore parties. But there's not a lot of good hardcore parties. Which is why I don't go out very often. Hardcore isn't just loudness.
HELLTEKK (D): Or goofiness.
SOR: Like happy hardcore?
HELLTEKK (J): Yeah, and even then, like there's good happy hardcore sets, like our homie Seth (Valestrand), or Flapjack. Obviously, he's the main happy hardcore guy. But like Seth does great Happy Hardcore sets, and I liked him, but then I'll go to go see other people who do Happy Hardcore sets. And I'm just like, I can tell you don't care for this music. I've heard the songs before. There's nothing wrong with playing songs that everyone knows. But if I go to your set, and every single song is songs that when you first look up happy, hardcore, is what I'm hearing… You have to have a certain level of care for things when you start doing them. A lot of people don't have the care for hardcore, happy hardcore, or jungle stuff like that. They just don't have the care for it. And that's fine. But I'm also not going to go and see you play because I know you don't care about this music as much as I do.
HELLTEKK (D): It's always really obvious when you like to tell us someone crate digs or not. If I can name like, your whole set, or half of your set at least, it's like, lock in with the genre you want to play.
HAMMERHEAD: I feel like when I would go and see hardcore parties, or even when I was playing hardcore parties everyone I'm playing alongside is trolling right now. I don't want to sound reactive or like things need to be pure. Obviously, all these things are meant to be broken down. And we can tell like you said, when someone doesn't have love for the music. Like, you went on Spotify and did the first three tracks on the hardcore bangers editorial playlists? You know.
HELLTEKK (J): You looked at the old school gabber pack on Spotify? I love Neophyte as much as the next person but I don't want to hear that. I've heard it enough.
SOR: Well, what are some genres that you guys think of for your collectives? What are you attracted to when you're playing? I know Dakota just did a sick Drum and Bass jungle mix.
HELLTEKK (D): Definitely what you just brought up. Definitely jungle. Free Tekno is one that we really love to play.
HELLTEKK (J): I really love Hard House. Yeah, part of the LA hard house scene is one of my favorites.
HELLTEKK (D): Yeah this one (Justin) crate digs like a motherfucker when it comes to hard house.
HELLTEKK (J): LA hard house scene is something I really love because like, looking through their history, it was just a big melting pot of Latinos and black people that really ran that scene for a while. And all the songs are super hard to find because they were not well documented at all. There's a couple of YouTube pages that have all the songs, but even then the songs won't be properly recorded like they're still fuzzy and hazy, which speaks to the genre because they were making it on really shitty samplers. That's one of my favorite genres that I really really love, along with jungle and the rest of them, but free techno, hardcore, and hard house is like my main thing.
HELLTEKK (D): And gabber for sure, it's really fun to play.
SOR: What is free tekno? I don't think I’ve heard that before.
HELLTEKK(J): Free tekno is a genre that spawned from the free party scene. So it's people like suburb bass, 69 DB, Chris liberator, Ben Nine Millimeter. That genre is my favorite because they make the songs eight minutes long and a lot of it is just straight hardware recording.
HELLTEKK (D): Spinning free tech is really fun too. Because it's just all about blends. Like you got to make sure the whole thing goes together. Really fun.
SOR: Ashe, what are some genres that you're attracted to?
HAMMERHEAD: I think the smooth brain answer is probably industrial hardcore. This is sort of like a fake term to me. If you unpack, what does it mean? Not much, but I don't know, dark hardcore. I like a lot of stuff within that. Like all of hardcore techno, like more technoey stuff, or like the Millennium sound, I love mainstream hardcore, like, early and old school. I don't like crossbreeding at all, or hard drum and bass, but just about everything else like in the spectrum, terror, speed core it's all good. And like yeah, like free techno techno okay, too.
HELLTEKK (J): Why don't you like crossbreed
HAMMERHEAD: I don't know, the sound design is nasty. I love jungle, I like some drum and bass. I like old UK breakbeat hardcore. I hate the like, (making a sound) chk chk bl-ink chk chk bl-ink
*Laughter*
HELLTEKK (J): Like the drum and bass break and then a really loud K right in the middle of the mix
HAMMERHEAD: Even like the hat. Everything is so clean. And obviously some hardcore is really clean in a similar way. But it's so shiny and perfect. You know what I mean? You can tell this person's a genius, like, in a bad way. I like tracks with breaks in them like drum and bass or jungle or like, club music and Baltimore club and stuff because the breaks sound human to some extent. A lot of crossbreed sounds so anti human and not organic.
SOR: Speaking of humanity and human touch in electronic stuff, what does that sound like to you? How do you bring like human-ness into this music?
HELLTEKK (J): I'll speak from my own sweet experience when it comes to me making music. I feel like what brings the human touch to it is making all my own sounds. That's what I try my best to do. I have a Mackie 1604, and it has an old technique where you do the direct outs. So you gain, uh, distort all the kicks and make your gabber kicks and stuff like that. That adds a human layer to it because it brings a really, really raw sound that I'll end up fixing in post. One of the songs that I released, Analog Static, a lot of it is what I recorded when I was outside. So it was a lot of field recordings of me just being out. And that's my favorite song because it sounds like something I did, not something that I grabbed from somewhere else. Samples and everything is fine. That's hip hop. I love it. I sample all the time. But there has to be a level of like, crafting from your own self in order to make it more human.
SOR: What are some images, feelings that come up in your mind's eye when you listen,play and dance to hardcore? What do you see in your brain? It could be anything abstract or concrete?
HELLTEKK: Honestly the one of the images that comes up in my head is the thumping from my monitors and drivers when I'm playing or listening to hardcore. That's the feeling that I get, the pumping from my chest.
HAMMERHEAD: Some like goofy stuff like the rapture or really like overblown high drama the earth opening up. I'm not feeling that all the time. Or like when I first heard hardcore, sonically I was like this is the most insane sound like the apocalypse were to happen this is what would be the soundtrack.
SOR: I was gonna ask about your wristbands for each one your shows have. Hardcore is a Feeling. Can you elaborate on what that phrase means to you?
HAMMERHEAD: I wrote down the wristbands in part because I was turned off by how segmented a lot of establishments are, especially like European Hardcore. Someone was like [after a set], You played a lot of like, this sound in your set, but also this one is like, And they're like, Well, which one is it? Which one are you doing? And I was like, Whoa, that's like, such a twisted way to approach music of like. Oh, I need to play like a pure Millennium set? It's actually a feeling and something that's continuous across a lot of different sounds. Hardcore is not just like gabber or Dutch hardcore, it's actually a whole spectrum of sounds,distortion and power and speed.
SOR: Do you guys feel that there are limitations to seeing things through genre?
HELLTEKK (J): Yes, but there's limitations for a reason. Not a reason to stop you. I see it like a herding dog, it's like they're pushing you towards the thing you're supposed to be. I feel like all the rules are really, really soft. But if you want to make the specific genre, you would have to abide by them a little bit.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, genre does matter. And history does matter. It's shaped how you understand music. At the same time, I don't want to idolize genres as the most valuable way to understand music. You're not going to hear this song if you're only judging it on what check marks or boxes it ticks.
HELLTEKK (J): I think the only box it should be ticking is if you like it or not. I don't need genre help, instead Do you think this would hit on a dance floor? I don't need you to think about the genre. I need you to let me know if this is going to hit on a set of speakers. If it does cool. If it doesn't let me know because that means that I have work to do.
SOR: What was your first encounter or earliest memory with hardcore?
HELLTEKK (J): If y'all ever seen that meme of the little kid dancing in the club, that was a Thunderdome video. I saw Thunderdome 1992 and all the Thunderdome videos, from 15 to around 17/18, but I didn't care to look for anything else past that And then, yeah, I started dating Dakota. Dakota was like There's a whole scene for this.
HELLTEKK(D): When I was 16 I went to a rave. So I was like, Yo, I'm fucking with this and my homie was there and asked him [the DJ], Do you know what this is? And then you know, they were like, yeah, it's gabber. I was like Yo, you gotta put me on. Thunderdome was like the entry. I grew to love it, you know got more into it so we're here now.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, I had a friend who would send me tracks or burned CDs in high school that would have a lot of trance and happy hardcore. And at one point they sent me a Scott Brown Bonkers, which was like a Happy Hardcore mix series. I probably was like 14. I was hearing it more and I wanted to know more.
SOR: How did you guys learn about each other? And how did you guys start off playing together?
HELLTEKK (J): Well, it's kind of hard to get into hardcore and not find Kilbourne in the first place. In the current state of hardcore hardcore, you do definitely run into your songs very easily. So yeah, at first we were like, super like, oh my god, do we say hi to her?
HAMMERHEAD: I think it must have just been through the internet. Like I feel like I was just like I mean, I don't know I have the experience recently where I was like, found like a few like people doing hardcore like in the city that I didn't know.
SOR: What is the relevance of being a young, queer, women, and people of color in the genre/scene?
HELLTEKK (J): Being young in the scene is important because other young people don't think they should come here because for some reason people have convinced them that raving is an old people's game. They feel like it's like a weird place where they can't compete or be in and I'm just like, No, you can. We're here. Like, the reason why we're here is for that reason. You could also do this, like that's the other thing where people all like to offer to help us. Or they're like, Oh, how do we get started? I'm just like, you're asking the wrong questions. You can just be started. The moment you start asking how can I do this is the moment you've already started. Just do it.
HELLTEKK (D): It's cool to see more Puerto Rican kids, Hondurans, Latinos, Black people in it.
HAMMERHEAD: There's one thing I thought about. I once played in the Netherlands, and I was feeling pretty alienated. Especially for queerness and straightness. I'm here to play. And it's only for straight people. And that is like, kind of odd. Like, would I be friends with these people? Like if we weren't just in this room right now. So I'm in the crowd at this point. Like, I'm waiting to go on. I'm just kind of in my head like, damn. And then as I'm doing this, these two totally like Gabbered out guys like, Australians, shaved head, tracksuit, shirtless really good Hakken… as I'm just like, having this big quandary, one of them, like grabs the other back of their head and they start making out. I'm just like, Oh, my God, like shut the fuck up. Just chill and enjoy this.
SOR: What are some of the benefits that come with starting a collective from scratch? What are some drawbacks?
HELLTEKK (J): The benefits of starting from scratch is you're able to build your own community; your own ecosystem. You got to do your own thing with it. Get to play your own music that you want to hear or the artists that you're actually in love with.
HELLTEKK (D): Make sure you pick the right people to work with and make sure those people that you pick are going to be down for the long run because you don't want to run into issues with them because they don't do their part.
HAMMERHEAD: Sharing what my vision of Hardcore is; my sort of perfect night imagined, my favorite artists. People playing long sets as the standard, not booking anyone because it's political or I feel like I need to bring this [certain] crowd in. It's just literally, musically, who I would like to see. That is a real blessing. I don't know, it's nice to work with my friends. Most of the people that make the flyers, that setup and run different parts of the party are friends and that's obviously special; It’s touching.
HAMMERHEAD cont.: Throwing the parties has really made me rethink about what I want to DJ, what kind of music I want to hear. Because once you're at a venue for like 15/16 hours, from the very start to breaking everything down, that's a really different energy than like, pulling up an hour before you play, dancing for a couple hours, leaving.
SOR: What is the difference in the energy?
HAMMERHEAD: In the mood and affect you’re trying to create. I think hardcore can suffer from this drop mentality or like EDM shit where I need to be blowing your mind like every other second. So much hype to like a point that can no longer sustain itself you know what I mean? If you only have an hour to play, you kind of just want to go in there and play all the bangers. Having a longer set for example, you can play stuff that you normally wouldn't because you know it's not going to get the most crazy crowd reaction; it's not going to be that song with an acapella that people know and then they can be like, ahhhh, sing along. I think the long term energy of the party may be something you think about.
SOR: What are the crowds that each of your respective collectives bring in? What are some similarities and differences in the people, energy, etc.?
HELLTEKK (D): The crowds we bring in are mainly POC, native New Yorkers. And the other half are a lot of young people, some candy kids, you know. Some punks also pull up so that's always sick to see because I'm like, come through to the raves it's not you know, fuck techno or whatever the fuck you're describing. That kill the disco mentality is wack, I think punks definitely enjoy the renegade aspect of it too.
HELLTEKK (J): I think [both of] the crowds that are coming are there to enjoy the music, rather than just going there for a photo op. Because that's a huge thing I think people sometimes tend to miss with their own parties, you should create an atmosphere where no one wants to pull their phones out. Or if they're gonna get a picture, they get their picture in and that's it. I don't need to be seeing a sea of phones, I sound like I'm 60 years old.
HELLTEKK (D): We’d rather see people connect on the dance floor with each other or with the music.
HAMMERHEAD: I feel like both parties, it's not a lot of people who are like, I'm wandering down Myrtle Ave. let me go to a techno club. It is self selected in some ways, it's a particular kind of music. I don't know if y'all would characterize your party this way but to me both of them are friendly. There’s an unspoken nature if you really fuck with this music and are giving yourself to it then you have a place in that space. Compared to a lot of other parties, a core concept is creating scarcity and some kind of sense of clique, which is a really dark mentality.
SOR: What is something that you wish you could change about the scene?
HELLTEKK (J): I wish we could be more selective as to who comes in. Not in a way to push anyone out, but I do feel there's an oversaturation of college kids who move here and are like, there's no community in the rave scene. So I created my own thing. If all of your crowds are transplant college kids, you are doing something very wrong. That's where we come into a lot of our issues with people who feel very entitled to the New York space because they moved here. Just because you paid to go to fucking NYU does not mean you're fucking entitled to my goddamn native space. I don't have a problem with people that are coming from colleges to stay here. But the entitlement behind your words is what bothers me.
HELLTEKK (D): People take the ‘New York is your playground’ thing too seriously. It's not a playground. This is a city full of people who care for and love the city. It's either you're going to care for and love the city, or you're going to feel jaded and want to do your own thing. And when that thing you started does not work out because, guess what, none of the people in this scene like you, because you have an entitled, rude attitude. And then, what, you're going to stop doing your collective and you're going to be like, “Oh, the New York scene sucks,” which we've heard too many times over. “Oh, the New York scene sucks.” “You guys are so jaded.” I'm like who jaded?! Because I love this city. I love my collective, I love my scene. It just didn't work out for you because you don't know how to speak to people.
HAMMERHEAD: For me, I'm trying to show what I think a hardcore party could look like and things that I find musically and artistically valuable and special to experience. I think that's my attempt at change.
SOR: On the flip side, what's something you would never change about the scene?
HAMMERHEAD: I value that people don't take the sound for granted here. It's rare compared to a lot of other kinds of dance music. And that's really different than, you know, a Dutch festival or just the Netherlands in general where you can go to any of these parties any day of the week kind of thing or it's always there for you. I think the energy of excitement and wonder around it is really special.
SOR: As natives, how do you feel about a lot of old mainstays, like The Grove for example, getting closed down and having to do more legal events.
HELLTEKK (J): It sucks to see it go because it was just like, that's where a lot of people got some of their first shows, especially with experimental electronic music. Or places like Chaos Computer because that space was just so organic. And for that to go and not come back up is hard.You know, I touched on this earlier but you college kids come here and y'all come from money. Start putting your money towards start putting your fucking money towards DIY spaces.
HELLTEKK (D): If they actually want to take part in it instead of acting like nothing exists. How about finding out for yourself and see what's going on and how you can help. Instead of having this the colonizer mentality once you move here.
SOR: What's the future looking like for HAMMERHEAD?
HAMMERHEAD: [The Magazine was originally slated for a June release] Well, I think we're gonna do the next HAMMERHEAD party on June 21. We're going to do the 5th HAMMERHEAD party bringing the legends: The Outside Agency & Mindustries. These are the people that made industrial hardcore what it is, it's both of their first times playing in New York, so that's history vibes. The next release for the label is going to be out this summer, it's RABBEAT who played last October. Yeah, seven tracks, incredible futuristic hardcore. I think he's maybe the best in industrial hardcore right now so I can't wait for them to come out.
SOR: HELLTEKK, any shoutouts?
HELLTEKK (J): Stay in tune with our Instagram (@helltekk.inc) so you could get the coordinates to where our free parties will be. We won't post them of course, but you know, you can hit us with a DM. Hopefully we're also going to come out with the HELLTEKK CD’s, it's all going to be mixes.
HELLTEKK (D): Shout out to the other third group member who wasn't able to come through but, Chris, Fuckthepychs (@wheresthepsychs), we love you. Shout out UNITED JUMP FRONT (@unitedjumpfront), another collective. Shout out to Shane K, Jess, Jules, they’re pushing the jump style hard house sound. Definitely shout out to the people that help us out during the Renegades. They show up early with us and help us lug everything.
HELLTEKK (J): And If you have your own free time, which you should have the free time to be doing… You should be looking in for the liberation of the Palestinian people. You should be looking into donating and helping the protesters.
HAMMERHEAD: 100%. To that end, all this like art and music is totally tied up with what Israel is trying to do by whitewashing itself as a cultural, tastemaker beacon and that's all just to like distract you from genocide. So keep talking about it in music spaces. I also wanna shout out to Juan and Aine who have been so helpful and crucial and tapped into making Hammerhead stuff happen pretty much from the jump.
SOR: Thank you guys so much y'all rock and that's cut.