est. 2023
Systems of Release is an evolving multimedia project presenting fragments of New York City's underground electronic music communities.
info
IN CONVERSATION WITH
ERIC CHUNG
To set the scene, Eric Chung and SOR cozy up on the couch with a record on. They all went out the night
before and were up to hear the morning birds chirp. They’re dazed and cloudy and make chit chat aboutwhatever comes to mind.
SOR: When did it occur to you that people really knew you in the scene?
ERIC: I think as soon as I started going to all my favorite clubs for free. Once the bartenders and bouncers would greet me with a 'Welcome Back’ instead of just a ‘Hello’, I realized I had my foot in the door.
SOR: What made you keep coming back? Was this community intriguing to you?
ERIC: 100%. And to be honest, when I was going to NYU I didn't have a lot of friends. I had a core group, but I was never making friends in class. I think they just had life experiences that were unrelatable to me. Only when I got into the techno scene did I meet people like me; people who wanna party, who are sweet and who are hustling.
SOR: There’s all kinds of people…
ERIC:...of all backgrounds.
SOR: What do you think makes up the face of the scene that keeps you coming back for more?
ERIC: It’s the people. The music. And when I first moved back in 2021 after the pandemic, I went to everything. I went to every single club and party that I could. All the way from Le Bain to more underground rave parties. I saw anal beads floating in the Le Bain hot tub, so we’re not doing that anymore hahaha. But it was only in dance and techno clubs where I felt that there were people that looked like me and that behaved like me. Moved like me. They’re sweet and they hear the music. Really welcoming and I quickly made friends. And that has to mean something.
SOR: What does it mean to be a face in the scene? In contrast to other scenes that are often more based in a transactional dynamic. But I think people in these techno spaces love the “faces” because they just love the people. It’s so fun going to the club and seeing the cast of characters that make up this community. And out of that is where opportunities come from. I’m thinking like Tygapaw and others who started as a face and were just loved for being a light in people’s lives.
ERIC: And just seeing other queer people of color. Finally finding where all the girls and the gays hang out. That really made me attracted to the scene. Other clubs are just often filled with the “straight co-worker” or the “punishers”.
SOR: Shoutout Mckenzie Wark for the term “punishers” from her book Raving. Those who sort of stand stagnant in the crowd- usually uncomfortable large straight men. I like to call them scarecrows too.
ERIC: I wanna be around like minded, young, beautiful people…who I could maybe sleep with haha. I was trying to find my community and this one welcomed me with open arms.
SOR: That’s why I kept coming back, too- people were open to whoever I was or I wanted to be.
SOR: Are there aspects of a club, party, or set that make or break it for you? The second you walk in.
ERIC: I know immediately from the security if I’ll join a party. This one I went to, hosted by Tehcno Brookly, not a fan. The only reason I went was for Trym (@trym.fr). So I’m waiting in line and they immediately say girls to the right, guys to the left.
SOR: Like ok what line do I go in tho… like that’s fucked up. Techno is too queer for that shit!
ERIC: It's giving transphobic.It's giving NOT queer enough. So weird.
ERIC: A separate experience I had was at Cylo. The security was so ridiculously strict about finding your drugs. They went through every single card. Done for. They checked my cigarette case. Which is where I hid my shit. But I played it cute, and hid it behind my thumb. It sounds superficial, but how strict on drugs you are is a reflection of how people’s demeanor inside. On edge. Surveilled. Everyone’s just drunk and awful.
SOR: If you were a bouncer, how would you decide who gets in?
ERIC: Oh gosh. I don't even know. It definitely has to be a vibe check. They actually do a good job of this at the Merge party (@mergebkn). This angel of a person. I overhear the way she asks other people. She’s not just judging outfits. She asks people who they are here to see, who they know here that's already inside and if they have been here before. And how people respond to that is where the judgment takes place. She’s very respectful. I think that line of questioning! And giving people chances!
SOR: Totally. Do you think that method of asking taps back into the ethos of the scene? Focusing on who are you here to listen to instead of what you look like?
ERIC: Yes. Who are you here to listen to? What are your motives for being here? And have you been here before? Those would be my entry questions.
SOR: Do you think that ethos has been diluted in some rave spaces though? And how do you see that playing out?
ERIC: Oh yes. Because even at Basement I tried to bringing some of my friends in, who I know are good people, here because I brought them and they wanna dance and not bother anyone. But they weren’t dressed up and were a little older. And the bouncers were so quick with it. No questions asked. Just no. And that I’m like c’mon…
SOR: Give 'em a shot!
ERIC: And at the same time they are letting in people who read the reddit threads and watch the tik-toks of what to wear to Basement. And I see hoards of them going inside. And I talk to them. And they’re losers. I'm sorry but they’re losers just there to be dressed how the internet told them to.
SOR: Why do you think that archetype is getting in?
ERIC: It's definitely about how you’re dressed and if you’re attractive.
SOR: That reminds me of this article on RA unpacking the dynamic between ravers and nonravers. Or as Paragon owner John Barclay’s is quoted, "There exists, for lack of a better term, a scenester vs. normie dichotomy that most of us aren't ready to acknowledge…" thinking about that and the idea the “normies” uplift the space financially and scenesters uplift the culture. They are loyal. I mean just like you said, you're getting in for free, you're drinking for free, etc.
(“Do New York Clubs Need Stricter Door Policies?” Zoey Shopmaker. Resident Advisor. 2022)
ERIC: Shut up! But yea…you’re right!
SOR: What was the first techno track that you heard that made you fall in love with the genre?
ERIC: Yea, this DJ and producer named Gesaffelstein with this track ‘Opr’ and ‘Hellifornia’
SOR: Did you hear the tracks while you were going out?
ERIC: No, actually my close friend and roommate since college, Javi, who showed me. While we were living in the dorms, we used to smoke, like all day everyday. Our routine would be to go into the bathroom, close the door, turn on the fan. One of us would sit on the toilet and the other on the tub. And we would just exchange songs back and forth. That's just how our relationship was, and still kind of is. He taught me everything about music.
SOR: That’s some of the best ways to bond with someone, just B2B. That's kind of how our bond over music started.
ERIC: Yea and we are both high and when the beat drops were just like ahhh *MINDBLOWN* The first memorable club I went to was Heaven or Las Vegas. Teeny tiny, not much going on. And the vibes were mid. So I went up to the bartender and said, The vibes are not good here baes, where do you go to party? And then he took us to Bossa Nova Civic Club later that night. We would only smoke weed…
SOR: Some people really be living like that, just stoned asf in the club
ERIC: Yea 3 joints minimum whenever we would go out.
SOR: But what a good way to find what's really happening- just ask people who work in service. They know what's up.
ERIC: I remember that first night at Bossa though, DJ Swisha (DjSwisha) was on the ticket who Javi is friends with now. A full circle moment. And the funny thing is Bossa looks exactly the same- same sticky floor. Which is nice.
SOR: Old reliable huh?
ERIC: Definitely
SOR: Do you think Bossa is your favorite club?
ERIC: It's the most reliable. A bossa night can happen just like that and you're there with all your friends because it's so central. I've also seen crazy people play there. Like (@lsdxoxo) LSDXOXO… the line was so long wrapped around the block where people pee behind the cars. Still 10$. I’ve seen VTSS (@vtss.pl) , Shacke (@schackdelic) there too.
SOR: When did two nights a week turn into three, four, even five? When was it a switch into obsession for you?
ERIC: I really really started going out when I moved back to NYU after covid. I moved back home to California - turned 21. And so when I moved back, around 2021, I was like ok what is out there? One of my first big parties was probably Boiler Room. I went by myself…nobody wanted to go with me. My only other rave friend was in the military so I was like fuck it! Let’s go!
SOR: I went too, alone, but thought it was so mid. The space was so huge- there wasn’t a lot of opportunity for it to be intimate. I don't even remember who I saw.
ERIC: I think one of the more memorable sets that I saw that night was by Marceline Steele (@marceline.steel). They’re like Miami based and would play the hardest shit with a booty bass background.
SOR: Did you bring anything in preparation for yourself for a night out alone?
ERIC: Nothing.
SOR: Wow, really?
ERIC: Well, at the time I was taking accutane. So doctors said no alcohol, and I wasn’t about to ask them if I could do any nose drugs on accutane either. So no alcohol. No cigarettes. Just weed. Just partying off hella fucking weed.
SOR: I could see how that could be so overstimulating though, knowing big productions like that on the way to greening your ass out…
ERIC: For sure…
SOR: Was there ever a time you felt uncomfortable when you first started going out?
ERIC: Hmmm… To be honest I used to go out just to dance and not really make an effort to make friends or be social. Maybe talk to one person and then go home. I’d come back home to my apartment and my roommates would ask how my night was and I’d just say… fun…good…
SOR: It's hard to explain a night out sometimes. Too many little details to capture it all honestly. What did your roommates think of you going out by yourself all the time?
ERIC: They thought I was CRAZY.
SOR: Haha right… I would come home from a night out at like 6 am and my roommates would ask me what were you even doing? And you just can’t even explain it.
ERIC: 100%. And that was at the same time I have the job I have now. And as soon as I got comfortable there, working in service and being so cool, it really helped me to get out of my bubble and be comfortable. IT forced me to talk to a hundred strangers a day.
SOR: I always wondered how you were so sociable and your battery seems to always be full. You are the bartender though..that's the life of the party. Did you find that people were always really friendly towards you?
ERIC: I think so, but we have always talked about this before, but I think I’m a naturally friendly person, and charming.. I think. And my job And naturally helped me get out of my shell when I would go to the club too.
SOR: Yes!
ERIC: And of course people would come up and ask about my hair and then introduce me to their friends and then just like that you're in the scene.
ERIC: Yea, this DJ and producer named Gesaffelstein with this track ‘Opr’ and ‘Hellifornia’
SOR: Did you hear the tracks while you were going out?
ERIC: No, actually my close friend and roommate since college, Javi, who showed me. While we were living in the dorms, we used to smoke, like all day everyday. Our routine would be to go into the bathroom, close the door, turn on the fan. One of us would sit on the toilet and the other on the tub. And we would just exchange songs back and forth. That's just how our relationship was, and still kind of is. He taught me everything about music.
SOR: That’s some of the best ways to bond with someone, just B2B. That's kind of how our bond over music started.
ERIC: Yea and we are both high and when the beat drops were just like ahhh *MINDBLOWN* The first memorable club I went to was Heaven or Las Vegas. Teeny tiny, not much going on. And the vibes were mid. So I went up to the bartender and said, The vibes are not good here baes, where do you go to party? And then he took us to Bossa Nova Civic Club later that night. We would only smoke weed…
SOR: Some people really be living like that, just stoned asf in the club
ERIC: Yea 3 joints minimum whenever we would go out.
SOR: But what a good way to find what's really happening- just ask people who work in service. They know what's up.
ERIC: I remember that first night at Bossa though, DJ Swisha (DjSwisha) was on the ticket who Javi is friends with now. A full circle moment. And the funny thing is Bossa looks exactly the same- same sticky floor. Which is nice.
SOR: Old reliable huh?
ERIC: Definitely
SOR: Do you think Bossa is your favorite club?
ERIC: It's the most reliable. A bossa night can happen just like that and you're there with all your friends because it's so central. I've also seen crazy people play there. Like (@lsdxoxo) LSDXOXO… the line was so long wrapped around the block where people pee behind the cars. Still 10$. I’ve seen VTSS (@vtss.pl) , Shacke (@schackdelic) there too.
SOR: When did two nights a week turn into three, four, even five? When was it a switch into obsession for you?
ERIC: I really really started going out when I moved back to NYU after covid. I moved back home to California - turned 21. And so when I moved back, around 2021, I was like ok what is out there? One of my first big parties was probably Boiler Room. I went by myself…nobody wanted to go with me. My only other rave friend was in the military so I was like fuck it! Let’s go!
SOR: I went too, alone, but thought it was so mid. The space was so huge- there wasn’t a lot of opportunity for it to be intimate. I don't even remember who I saw.
ERIC: I think one of the more memorable sets that I saw that night was by Marceline Steele (@marceline.steel). They’re like Miami based and would play the hardest shit with a booty bass background.
SOR: Did you bring anything in preparation for yourself for a night out alone?
ERIC: Nothing.
SOR: Wow, really?
ERIC: Well, at the time I was taking accutane. So doctors said no alcohol, and I wasn’t about to ask them if I could do any nose drugs on accutane either. So no alcohol. No cigarettes. Just weed. Just partying off hella fucking weed.
SOR: I could see how that could be so overstimulating though, knowing big productions like that on the way to greening your ass out…
ERIC: For sure…
SOR: Was there ever a time you felt uncomfortable when you first started going out?
ERIC: Hmmm… To be honest I used to go out just to dance and not really make an effort to make friends or be social. Maybe talk to one person and then go home. I’d come back home to my apartment and my roommates would ask how my night was and I’d just say… fun…good…
SOR: It's hard to explain a night out sometimes. Too many little details to capture it all honestly. What did your roommates think of you going out by yourself all the time?
ERIC: They thought I was CRAZY.
SOR: Haha right… I would come home from a night out at like 6 am and my roommates would ask me what were you even doing? And you just can’t even explain it.
ERIC: 100%. And that was at the same time I have the job I have now. And as soon as I got comfortable there, working in service and being so cool, it really helped me to get out of my bubble and be comfortable. IT forced me to talk to a hundred strangers a day.
SOR: I always wondered how you were so sociable and your battery seems to always be full. You are the bartender though..that's the life of the party. Did you find that people were always really friendly towards you?
ERIC: I think so, but we have always talked about this before, but I think I’m a naturally friendly person, and charming.. I think. And my job And naturally helped me get out of my shell when I would go to the club too.
SOR: Yes!
ERIC: And of course people would come up and ask about my hair and then introduce me to their friends and then just like that you're in the scene.
SOR: Who are you top NY DJs you can’t miss if you see them on a line up?
ERIC: In the beginning I knew no names. I would find a show to go to, look up the artists right before the show on soundcloud, listen for a little Uhhh yea I kinda like this, let’s go! But now, standouts for me are definitely Kyruh (@yeskyruh). I saw her back in 2021 at Transpecos for Eric Umble’s party, Facetime (@unblemusic @facetimetechno). That’s also where I met Daiyah (@daaiyahdaiyahdaiyah0). Brutalismus 3000 as well. I actually saw them my first night at Basement.
SOR: Woah! Fuckin’ lucky. So jealous.
ERIC: At that that time I was still offline, no instagram still to this day, so I didn't really get the lore of Basement and just showed up, no preconceived judgments
SOR: That’s a novel way to experience it though.
ERIC: Right! And when I see people thinking they have to dress or act in a certain way, I’m just thinking to myself all you gotta do is not be an ass. Just be a nice person.
SOR: Any other people and parties though?
ERIC: Hmmm, of course WTCHCRFT (@w_t_c_h) because he’s the homie, but honestly. Think i'm sitting on the fact that I’ve seen almost everybody I’ve wanted to. Now it's about where most of my friends are going. That's how I end up deciding where to go…
ERIC: How about you guys?
SOR: Somniac One. KRTM. XXXL Techno party in London, too. I think we’ve seen everyone we wanna see in New York.
SOR: Do you ever feel a level of responsibility to go out and witness the history being created?
ERIC: That is definitely a driving force. I always wanna know what they are doing next. They being everyone. Some of the warehouses or other structures where more underground parties are hosted we may never see again. The Merge party rented out the building which Chaos Computer (@chaoscomputerclub_) would often use for their parties. And this was a week before it got torn down. And now it’ll never be seen again. It really is this temporal utopia.
SOR: Do you ever feel FOMO?
ERIC: A little bit. But I don't know if it’s FOMO, though. It's more like I’m gonna stay up in my room on my phone till 4am anyways. I don't wanna waste my time. We pay crazy amounts of rent out here too. People are driving from New Jersey to come to these shows. But not having Instagram helps.
SOR: Do you feel the fast pace club lifestyle changed the way you function in other spaces?
ERIC: I think it has opened me up to the idea of a never-ending-party lifestyle that I don't think other scenes do in the same way.
SOR: What are some negative aspects about this lifestyle?
ERIC: What comes to mind is drug usage and dependency on that to seemingly have a full night out.
SOR: Those joints aren’t doing it anymore!
ERIC: Yea and I think I know how to have fun at a rave
SOR: And being super high at a rave is fun! But there’s always a balance.
ERIC: Exactly. Another thing would be my romantic relationships. I’m not finding anything serious at the club.
SOR: It feels like it could be there, but it’s often not. It’s such a fleeting, erratic environment.
ERIC: But still, I’ve had beautiful relationships and conversations blossom in the club. I've cried multiple times at the club. Made others cry too. But, at least in the circuit, sex is so readily available. Yes, I’ve gotten dicked down multiple times in the bathroom at Bossa. But that can’t be it, right?
SOR: Do you think the availability of all these indulgences can be damaging?
ERIC: yes. Funny enough, I’ll go on dates with people who don’t typically go out and they will leave me with a kiss on the cheek and I’m thinking like oh you clearly aren't into me if you're not gonna fist me in the corner… It's definitely shifted my perspective. And I’m trying to navigate that.
SOR: Well by the end of the weekend I don't even have the energy to go on a date. So gotta give you credit for stepping out.
ERIC: The difference in schedules is hard for sure. We’re just on a different clock. But honestly I may need a partner who is on the other side of the spectrum.
SOR: Agreed. I need a partner who will tame me. Someone has to say no cus its not gonna be me.
ERIC: Someone to balance you out.
SOR: Do you ever build out a mental map of a club and site/moment specific spots within the space?
ERIC: I actually designed a diagram of Bossa for a friend who’s never been [See pg. 11-12]. It’s a color coded floor plan of what I deem the best and worst places to dance. There’s sections that note where the fans hits the dancefloor, where the sound is the best, and the traffic jam that is the walk from the bar to the bathroom.
SOR: What a whimsical way to curate someone’s experience.That would be an amazing architectural series keeping in mind the way the design of a space truly influences the movement and energy of a crowd.
SOR: Are there certain elements of a night out that are time specific? For example, an hour focused on socializing, another on dancing? Is there a method to the madness?
ERIC: It can be fucking ridiculous… especially big parties at Basmement where I know that the first one to two hours is socializing. Running into people, chatty smoke breaks and going in and out of bathroom stalls. I swear to god some nights at Basement I’ve only started dancing at 6 A.M.
SOR: Does that ever annoy you? It’s like pregaming for five hours. Hilarious timeline that only makes sense to us.
ERIC: Ehhhh…It’s an integral part of my experience! Catching up with people and being silly high makes the night what it is. And when 6 A.M. comes along and I’m ten bathroom visits deep, I’m so ready to shake some ass!
ERIC: In the beginning I knew no names. I would find a show to go to, look up the artists right before the show on soundcloud, listen for a little Uhhh yea I kinda like this, let’s go! But now, standouts for me are definitely Kyruh (@yeskyruh). I saw her back in 2021 at Transpecos for Eric Umble’s party, Facetime (@unblemusic @facetimetechno). That’s also where I met Daiyah (@daaiyahdaiyahdaiyah0). Brutalismus 3000 as well. I actually saw them my first night at Basement.
SOR: Woah! Fuckin’ lucky. So jealous.
ERIC: At that that time I was still offline, no instagram still to this day, so I didn't really get the lore of Basement and just showed up, no preconceived judgments
SOR: That’s a novel way to experience it though.
ERIC: Right! And when I see people thinking they have to dress or act in a certain way, I’m just thinking to myself all you gotta do is not be an ass. Just be a nice person.
SOR: Any other people and parties though?
ERIC: Hmmm, of course WTCHCRFT (@w_t_c_h) because he’s the homie, but honestly. Think i'm sitting on the fact that I’ve seen almost everybody I’ve wanted to. Now it's about where most of my friends are going. That's how I end up deciding where to go…
ERIC: How about you guys?
SOR: Somniac One. KRTM. XXXL Techno party in London, too. I think we’ve seen everyone we wanna see in New York.
SOR: Do you ever feel a level of responsibility to go out and witness the history being created?
ERIC: That is definitely a driving force. I always wanna know what they are doing next. They being everyone. Some of the warehouses or other structures where more underground parties are hosted we may never see again. The Merge party rented out the building which Chaos Computer (@chaoscomputerclub_) would often use for their parties. And this was a week before it got torn down. And now it’ll never be seen again. It really is this temporal utopia.
SOR: Do you ever feel FOMO?
ERIC: A little bit. But I don't know if it’s FOMO, though. It's more like I’m gonna stay up in my room on my phone till 4am anyways. I don't wanna waste my time. We pay crazy amounts of rent out here too. People are driving from New Jersey to come to these shows. But not having Instagram helps.
SOR: Do you feel the fast pace club lifestyle changed the way you function in other spaces?
ERIC: I think it has opened me up to the idea of a never-ending-party lifestyle that I don't think other scenes do in the same way.
SOR: What are some negative aspects about this lifestyle?
ERIC: What comes to mind is drug usage and dependency on that to seemingly have a full night out.
SOR: Those joints aren’t doing it anymore!
ERIC: Yea and I think I know how to have fun at a rave
SOR: And being super high at a rave is fun! But there’s always a balance.
ERIC: Exactly. Another thing would be my romantic relationships. I’m not finding anything serious at the club.
SOR: It feels like it could be there, but it’s often not. It’s such a fleeting, erratic environment.
ERIC: But still, I’ve had beautiful relationships and conversations blossom in the club. I've cried multiple times at the club. Made others cry too. But, at least in the circuit, sex is so readily available. Yes, I’ve gotten dicked down multiple times in the bathroom at Bossa. But that can’t be it, right?
SOR: Do you think the availability of all these indulgences can be damaging?
ERIC: yes. Funny enough, I’ll go on dates with people who don’t typically go out and they will leave me with a kiss on the cheek and I’m thinking like oh you clearly aren't into me if you're not gonna fist me in the corner… It's definitely shifted my perspective. And I’m trying to navigate that.
SOR: Well by the end of the weekend I don't even have the energy to go on a date. So gotta give you credit for stepping out.
ERIC: The difference in schedules is hard for sure. We’re just on a different clock. But honestly I may need a partner who is on the other side of the spectrum.
SOR: Agreed. I need a partner who will tame me. Someone has to say no cus its not gonna be me.
ERIC: Someone to balance you out.
SOR: Do you ever build out a mental map of a club and site/moment specific spots within the space?
ERIC: I actually designed a diagram of Bossa for a friend who’s never been [See pg. 11-12]. It’s a color coded floor plan of what I deem the best and worst places to dance. There’s sections that note where the fans hits the dancefloor, where the sound is the best, and the traffic jam that is the walk from the bar to the bathroom.
SOR: What a whimsical way to curate someone’s experience.That would be an amazing architectural series keeping in mind the way the design of a space truly influences the movement and energy of a crowd.
SOR: Are there certain elements of a night out that are time specific? For example, an hour focused on socializing, another on dancing? Is there a method to the madness?
ERIC: It can be fucking ridiculous… especially big parties at Basmement where I know that the first one to two hours is socializing. Running into people, chatty smoke breaks and going in and out of bathroom stalls. I swear to god some nights at Basement I’ve only started dancing at 6 A.M.
SOR: Does that ever annoy you? It’s like pregaming for five hours. Hilarious timeline that only makes sense to us.
ERIC: Ehhhh…It’s an integral part of my experience! Catching up with people and being silly high makes the night what it is. And when 6 A.M. comes along and I’m ten bathroom visits deep, I’m so ready to shake some ass!